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Thread: Election 2017

  1. #3571
    Crocodile's Avatar AF Millennium Member Senior Member
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    "The Pisssed Bisexuals"
    No not a band but A CLUB

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    The only way they are getting sex is to Bi IT.

  2. #3572
    Crocodile's Avatar AF Millennium Member Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sir Cornelius Platinum View Post
    Yes , Norway might have a higher fuel price ( and higher per capita incomes and more productive people -- less bludgers there ) but that is done artifically to make alternative energy sources look more attractive -- they do that to follow EU directives . Not saying its a bad thing , but you need to see the whole picture rather than just a snippet , to make a valid argument .
    Point of order.
    Norway is not in the EU.
    They tell them to get stuffed quite regularly.
    Of course they can as they supply a lot of the EU states with gas / and or invest in those countries industries / business.

  3. #3573
    Crocodile's Avatar AF Millennium Member Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hello Sailor View Post
    The cost has always been below, when you look at it from a KWH perspective. You simply cant dig coal up as cheaply as you can stand a panel in the sun. The problem is storage cost, and that is excluded from a direct KWH comparison. This is how people get conned into believing that green energy solutions are more viable than they actually are.



    I urge you to just consider the viability of this. Consider the losses involved firstly in pumping, then in (re) generating power from that water. Are alarm bells ringing? This is just an attempt to push absurdity onto those who have no grasp of viability.

    If they wanted to make it slightly sensible, they would be pushing the barrow of solar water heating in Aussie harder. Instead, they are suggesting that solar panels generate power to pump water, which is used to generate power, which in turn is used by consumers to heat their water at an efficiency rating that would be lucky if it was 20%. See how silly it is now?

    We have become so obsessed by this situation that we are prepared to accept such nonsense, which I find quite sad.
    Agreed SH.

    Otherwise Einstein was wrong?

    "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed".

    Or Power In = Power out + losses.
    so pumping the water up the hill = losses

  4. #3574

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    "and higher per capita incomes and more productive people -- less bludgers there "


  5. #3575

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    Agreed SH.

    Otherwise Einstein was wrong?

    "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed".

    Or Power In = Power out + losses.
    so pumping the water up the hill = losses
    Yep. If you actually look at the video Eric quoted, they state that their losses are 25%. Furthermore, you don't have to be too smart to realise the cost to create that infrastructure. The purpose is to deal with peak loads, not to store surplus energy as such. 25% is acceptable for that purpose, but not for general energy storage. Typically conventional batteries run around 85-90%, meaning the losses are halved.

    What makes sense in NZ is to use hydro (or coal/gas) to provide for the peaks, and solar/wind to allow less draw on hydro reservoirs when the sun shines or the wind blows. That means the losses are limited to those of the respective generating systems, as opposed to storage and re-conversion losses, because all the output feeds directly to the grid.

    All this however, does not change the fact that thermal rocks when it comes down to output, and hydro is pretty up there, as well as free and 'green', like solar or wind.

    Ironically, hydro is actually stored solar and wind, but it is just done by nature, rather than man.

  6. #3576
    JohnnyMac's Avatar Regular Contributor Member
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    Are you aware that Genesis is currently importing 120,000 tonnes of coal from Indonesia?
    Nothing new, they imported bucket loads, while still owned by the state, under the previous administration and without the exacerbating circumstance of the current gas outage Genesis Energy axes Indonesian coal imports as Huntly use falls | The National Business Review.

  7. #3577

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyMac View Post
    Nothing new, they imported bucket loads, while still owned by the state, under the previous administration ...............
    The Lange/Douglas administration made the State Mines a SOE, effectively forcing them to return a profit. Ultimately I think Coalcorp (Solid Energy) saw Huntly Power Station as a cash cow, and the coal imports were a way to make Solid Energy 'get real' in terms of pricing. The Miners of course lost any Union leverage they had, and ultimately balance was restored. Mining is hard, dangerous and unpleasant work, but make no mistake, the miners at Huntly were making good money back then.

  8. #3578
    JohnnyMac's Avatar Regular Contributor Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile View Post
    Agreed SH.

    Otherwise Einstein was wrong?

    "Energy can neither be created nor destroyed".
    Nothing to do with Einstein, you have quoted the first - of the three - Laws of Thermodynamics.

  9. #3579
    Wilbert's Avatar AF Jedi Pro Membership
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  10. #3580
    Crocodile's Avatar AF Millennium Member Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyMac View Post
    Nothing to do with Einstein, you have quoted the first - of the three - Laws of Thermodynamics.
    I just quoted the guy.
    Why I used quotations.

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